About Family Therapy
A video about mental health
A video about family therapy and with answers to common questions with Accredited Therapists Jo Aldred and Stuart Cheverton, in Melbourne, Australia.
Video Transcript
Introduction
Stuart: Welcome to the Safe Place Therapy podcast channel. My name is Stuart Cheverton and I am one of the owners and directors of Safe Place Therapy, and I’m a mental health social worker.
I’d like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land in which we meet today. I would also like to pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging.
We record this episode on, and all our episodes, on the Kulin Nation, but also on other beautiful lands across Victoria.
So welcome everyone. Today we’re doing a podcast related to family counseling or family therapy.
And here today we have myself, Stuart Cheverton, and Jo Aldred, who’s a family therapist and counselor with Safe Place Therapy. Thank you for coming along, Jo.
Jo: Thank you.
What's the difference between individual counselling and family counselling?
Stuart: And so we’re going to take some time just to kind of pull apart family therapy. What, kind of, what to expect, but also some, maybe some common questions that people might have before coming to that space and digging into that kind of work.
So I guess to start, Jo, how would you kind of differentiate between, say, an individual coming to counseling and a family coming to counselling? What are some of the differences?
Jo: I guess family therapists are interested in relationships between people.
Relationships are a big kind of determinant of our happiness. Obviously when our relationships are going well, we have a better sense of well being. When there’s problems in those kind of relationships with people close to us often causes quite a lot of distress. So family therapists are looking at interactions between people and so not particularly with one particular person in the family, but looking at the system as a whole, which is different from individual work because.
Stuart: Yeah, I guess then you’re, you’re dealing a lot with dynamics in relationships and, and even as a, as a whole group too. I guess if you’ve got more than two people, usually, there’d be lots of different relationships and different things going on in that mix.
Yeah.
Jo: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Common problems that people bring to family therapy
Stuart: Okay. And so I guess to start with, it might be good to bounce around some common experiences or common problems that people bring to family therapy first, just to kind of set the scene. So what are some more recent examples that, that have come along to you?
Jo: So I work quite a lot with young people, so I often work with families where a young person is trying to differentiate from their family. So they’re developing that kind of age appropriate kind of autonomy. They’re wanting to have more choice, making more decisions about the way they live their lives.
And sometimes you’ll find that a parental system might struggle with that change in a young person, struggle with that kind of relinquishing control over the young person and allowing the young person to become an individual and move away from the family.
So families can sometimes need a little bit of support around that stage.
Another kind of common presentation is where there’s… along the line, there’s been some kind of attachment rupture. So there’s been a rupture in a relationship which has then caused a lot of kind of pain and resentment for different family members.
That’s quite a common one as well.
Often when people reach out for family therapy, they’re kind of at the point of potential cut off with their family. So they kind of become so distressed that they’re kind of feeling that they may not be able to continue their relationship with their family.
So, yeah, the stakes can be quite high in those kind of situations. And there’s a lot of distress and hurt that occurs.
Stuart: Yes. Yeah, you’re definitely hinting there at high stakes, but also high tension and a lot of, I guess, questions for, for lots of different parties, even before they come, you know, to the counseling space with. With that other family member, or family members.
Jo: Yeah.
How do you start the process of family therapy?
Stuart: So I. That’s an interesting starting point is let’s say there is one family member who really feels that family therapy is needed. And, you know, at that point of, you know, I might need to cut them out if they don’t come to family therapy, or if we don’t work this through.
I wonder what are the kind of starting points from your side, or I guess the Safe Place side, to initiate that first contact, or start the process of family therapy?
Jo: Yeah. So what I would usually do is invite the person who’s initiating the family therapy to come and meet with me first, and just hear a bit from their perspective about what their issues and concerns are.
I’d explain quite clearly to them that I am a neutral party. So my job is to kind of remain kind of out of the individual sphere and more into how they improve their interactions as a family.
So I would kind of take a history. I’d probably do a genogram, which is a kind of map of a family.
Find out who’s in the family, who’s close to who, who doesn’t talk to who, where there’s been kind of ruptures, cutoffs, alliances, try and map out the… family a little bit.
And then I would also seek to see the other members of the family in their. With their own individual space as well.
I’m not kind of just hearing the story from one person’s point of view. I’m seeking to understand from lots of people’s point of view.
I would also not put a family in a room together until I felt that they were ready. Because you know that I need to know that I can control the emotional intensity in the room. And it’s going to be a helpful experience. I don’t want it to be an awful traumatic experience for people. And sometimes there may be a process of going back and forth between different parties before they actually come together for a conversation. I need to make sure that conversation is going to be safe and productive.
How we make sure the conversation is safe and productive
Stuart: Yeah, yeah. So just to kind of explain that again for listeners or people watching this: so, Party One, the person who wants to do family therapy comes to you first and there’s a discussion and family mapping and understanding of what’s going on for that person and their perspective.
And then you might have another party who might be a bit hesitant or never done family therapy or have real hesitancy about the whole process. You actually meet with them also separately as well…
Jo: Yeah.
Stuart: …just to kind of, you know, understand what’s going on for them. Because it’s clearly. Oftentimes it’s different. Right. Oftentimes they see it different, have a different context, have a different emotional view of things.
And. And maybe that’s kind of a really good spot for both parties to feel heard. And for you, as well, as a therapist, to know the sides. And know what’s going on in the different corners. Yeah, yeah.
Jo: And for people to be reassured that I’m not taking sides. So obviously the person who’s being called to family therapy is going to kind of feel a bit on the back foot because they’re going to know that the person who initiated the therapy has already put their point of view across.
So it’s my job to kind of join with them and make sure they feel heard as well. So that everybody feels kind of safe going into that session. And it may be different groups of people. It may be the parents, it may be the sibling group together. It might be a dad and daughter.
You know, there’s all kind of combinations that I might work with prior to getting a family together. And sometimes we don’t need to get the whole family together. Sometimes we can identify an issue between two particular members that has occurred and has just basically brought other people into the issue. So once we resolve the issue between those two people, we don’t necessarily need to see the family as a whole.
Ground rules
Stuart: Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah. You don’t have to bring all the siblings or the whole family. Just thinking of my family, there’s about seven of us, so it’s a big family kind of picture.
And I think that’s another good point, is the real worries about family therapy being quite explosive and toxic. And I’m wondering some of the ground rules you talk about in those individual sessions, individual party sessions, first to lay down the kind of foundation… What are some of those ground rules?
Jo: Yeah. So I would be… I’m quite bossy in my sessions. I will kind of control the environment.
You know, I won’t allow interrupting, talking over, you know, it’s not a TV kind of, you know, show where we get a family together, we make sure it’s a kind of safe environment.
So making sure that everybody kind of has time to finish what they’re saying. Sometimes I’ll do exercises where a conversation between two people. I’ll ask the listener to reflect back what they’ve heard without putting their point of view into the conversation. So a purely kind of reflective listening exercise. And then I’ll get them to kind of swap around and the other person to state their, kind of, opinion.
So turn taking. Not interrupting. Being respectful. You know, if the emotional energy starts rising, maybe taking breaks. Being very mindful of how kind of emotional these conversations can be and very carefully managing that in the room.
Yeah. With that, I also kind of really encourage people not to argue. So not to get into the facts of the situation, more to use I statements, and feeling statements.
Because we’re never going to get anywhere arguing about trying to get to one ultimate truth. Because there can be two different perspectives on the same situation. So it’s more about people owning their own experiences, speaking on behalf of themselves, rather than arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong and who did what when.
A different structure
Stuart: Yep. Yep. Because I. I think this is often something I say in couples counseling is if we’re literally doing the same thing that you’re doing at home, it’s not going to work.
So we need a different structure. Right. We need to go at this from a different angle based on respect. Right. Based on this. And that might even take some time in itself by trying not to react so much in the moment. Not. Not just kind of getting your argument ready to fire out, really taking that time… to listen, to understand.
Jo: Yeah, for sure.
Stuart: Okay. Any other ground rules that come to mind or things that are important for people to know at those early stages of family therapy?
Jo: Just that, you know, when we’re not necessarily going to cover everything in one session. And we don’t need to kind of go at a breakneck speed. Sometimes dealing with one thing at a time is enough. You know, we don’t want to kind of go back through years worth of things that have happened – and then this happened, then that happened. You know, staying on one topic at a time, I think is, is helpful. Yeah.
And having realistic expectations for the session as well. You know, we’re not going to come out with kind of perfect relationships. We need good enough relationships. And sometimes relationships do need boundaries around them as well. You know, sometimes a young person might not want to be as involved with their family as they were previously. But I usually try and encourage people to, you know, to veer away from the black and white cut off or all in. You know, to find that sort of healthy balance of how much interaction they want to have with their family.
Agreement vs curiousity
Stuart: Yeah, okay.
Yeah. And going back to that earlier point of people having different perspectives, what if that remains quite different? Like, I’m wondering how you hold that space in terms of, let’s say, let’s say mum, dad, have a real view on how their child, adult, child needs to, you know, do more study or, you know, something like that as an example. But the person is, is wanting a different future or a different way of living. Like, how do you, how do you allow that space to be okay?
Jo: I tend to try and teach with parents. I tend to try and teach different ways of interacting with their young person, that move away from that kind of advice giving, managing their life kind of role.
So, you know, trying to get parents to kind of step back from that kind of role of you should be doing this, you should be doing that, into a more kind of curious, interested kind of stance with their young person or, you know, what movies have you seen. Yes. Recently, you know, what do you think about this that’s happening in the news at the moment? Rather than that kind of you should be doing this, that and the other, which often young people really balk at.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah.
Jo: And we’re not going to agree. We’re not. It’s not a mediation process when you kind of always come to an agreement. It’s more about hearing each other and respecting each other’s points of view.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah. And, and I guess then hopefully the idea for the young person is for them to feel a bit more solid in who they are in terms of the choices they make. Even if the parents disagree. Right. Even if, even if they still feel quite solid that, you know, their young child needs to do something different, that, that the relationship itself needs to change based on, you know, the young person’s age, you know. Building independence.
You know, it’s a real struggle for both parties.
Jo: Yeah, yeah. And. And. And tips to be learned for both on current day of navigating those… developmental changes.
What if one family member doesn't want to come?
Stuart: Yeah. Okay. Hmmm.
So what if one family member doesn’t want to come to family therapy? So you might have, you know, a bunch of people coming, but there is actually one person choosing not to attend. Has that happened for you before?
Jo: And that does happen sometimes. And obviously we’re never going to kind of force somebody to come who doesn’t feel comfortable coming.
You know, I think we just remain curious about what that person’s kind of position might be and what they might say about things and kind of try to include their perspective. Ask other family members what they think that person’s perspective might be. What would they say if they were here? You know, what do you think, you know, such and such would do in this situation?
So we. We can kind of. Obviously, we’re making assumptions. We. We don’t know what that person might say, but it helps keep them involved in the. In the discussions around the family. And I think we have to be respectful about people’s choice. Some people might not want to come for whatever reason.
In some situations, I might sort of reach out to them by phone to do a bit of a kind of warm chat and just explain about the process.
But ultimately, you know, it’s their choice.
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah, we can’t force anybody.
What gets in the way of families feeling close or connected?
Stuart: So back to kind of some of those things you do see not working for families is kind of some of the communication issues, I suppose. What are some of those layers you see that kind of get in the way of families feeling close or connected?
Jo: Sometimes they can just be a different perspective on the same event. And because those things have never been aired, those misunderstandings have never been cleared up.
So a person might come away with an assumption about what another person is thinking or feeling, and that has remained intact because they’ve never talked it through. But when they actually do talk it through in a room, sometimes the other person will say, “that is totally not what I meant. And I had a different understanding of that.” And sometimes some repairs can be made with just a simple apology: “I’m really sorry that your perspective of that event was as such. That is not… that was not my intention. That’s not what I meant.”
You know, and I think that’s sometimes where, you know, we have limitations in individual therapy, because individual therapy is very much about kind of validating the, the individual’s point of view. But unless we kind of actually check in with the other party, some of those misunderstand can continue and breed a lot of resentment over the years.
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah.
What does a better future look like?
Stuart: And I guess there’s an interesting kind of ending to family therapy, sometimes, where as you say, it’s not about building a perfect family unit.
Sometimes it’s actually about setting more boundaries in place to, to build some level of safety, to build some level of, maybe, you know, a bare minimum of respect going forward.
Jo: Yeah, yeah.
And you know, not everybody has very close relationships with their family, you know, and that’s not possible for everybody. So it’s about kind of thinking about how you would like things to look with your family and then working… towards that together, you know?
Stuart: Yeah.
A different way of talking
Jo: It may be that big events are too triggering or too stressful, you know, so you decide you don’t want to go home for Christmas, that’s okay. You know, if that feels too much for you and it’s going to cause a lot of stress. You know, let’s try and think around different ways of, of catching up with family that feel more manageable.
Stuart: Yep. Yeah. And yeah, there might be a working up to Christmas. Right. Or, or I can’t actually do this Christmas because of the past, because of triggers, etc. But how about we catch up for coffee? How about we actually rebuild a little bit of that connection and it feels okay and make some of those baby steps.
Jo: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s never all or nothing, you know.
Stuart: Yeah. And think that’s. I think that’s an interesting one around people feeling like coming up to the holidays now, actually people feeling that they have to play happy family or that they have to, you know, throw out this image to, I don’t know, aunties or uncles or the extended family maybe that everything’s okay when it’s not okay. I wonder how does that sit? You know, has that been raised before by, by clients?
Jo: Oh, yeah. There’s so much stress around this time of year about kind of especially as well, the questions from, you know, for young people, what are you doing? Have you done this? Have you done that? You know, these kind of tick boxes that young people often feel like they need to go through and, you know, they can often feel like they’re kind of not… not living up to their family’s expectations if they haven’t done ABC.
So, you know, it’s about kind of encouraging families to talk to young people in a different way as well, you know, asking them about their interests rather than being always kind of achievement-focused, which is difficult for a lot of people, you know.
Individual therapy about family
Stuart: Yeah. And even having an individual therapy session on that with clients can be really beneficial. Again, you know, how do they engage with their family? How do they want to engage?
But also maybe some of the internal stuff going on, some anxiety, or you know, how do I deal with this person type stuff. Can, can…
So, yeah, I guess we’ve got the framework of family therapy where there’s multiple people in the room. But stepping back from that too, it might be good to have a session with yourself, or a counselor, around “this is my personal difficulties with my family” through that.
Jo: Exactly. Yeah.
Stuart: Yeah. Okay.
The pattern of relationships
Stuart: So, I’m wondering what other areas you explore. So usually a family comes around, you know, a number of issues that we need to talk through and express perspective and emotions and stuff related to that. But I’m wondering, is there certain other parts of a family that you like to just understand a bit more, to help guide the process?
Jo: Yeah, I like to understand at least one more generation above that family because often there’s a pattern of, kind of, relationships that have come from an older generation and then have kind of been repeated.
So, often families that come to therapy are looking to change that pattern.
Often there’s intergenerational trauma. So where there’s been kind of trauma in a family a few generations back. Or struggles around wars, around, kind of, refugees, around all kinds of experiences that have happened to families that have… that are transmitted down through the generations. So they’re an important part of the picture of how a family…
Stuart: Yeah.
Jo: …functions.
Stuart: Yeah. Okay. Anything else that comes down.
Jo: And it’s not just about families, as well. It’s about… When I’m mapping a genogram, I also say, and who else is important?
So they could be somebody that’s really involved in your life that’s not officially in your family, but they’re a very important person. So it’s not, it’s not just family. It’s also if you’ve got that close neighbour or, you know, friend of the family that’s always around, you know.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the who’s who of the zoo.
Jo: Yeah, exactly.
Understanding cultural differences
Stuart: The culture and history and the kind of generational stuff that happens. Yeah.
Okay.
What about like different cultures? Like, I mean, I’m throwing out there. I suppose mum and dad or grandparents might have migrated from a certain country that have certain traditions and certain things that they have built these expectations around.
And then the young person, you know, again, or family member – we could just say ‘family member’ – wants to live differently to that. I’m wondering how you, again, help both parties talk that through.
Jo: Yeah, that’s, that’s quite a common kind of problem that comes to family therapy as well.
And there’s, there’s a lot of research around younger generations tend to kind of take on the new culture a lot quicker than the older generations. So there’s a kind of disconnect between the level of integration within the new culture, which often causes, kind of, distress between kind of parents and young people.
And again, that’s about those kind of those negotiations, those talking through things, you know, for young people to understand what are their parents absolute non-negotiables, you know. What are things that they really kind of can’t get their head round.
And then what are some things that we can work a little bit on where we can kind of come to the, to the middle a little bit and just kind of understanding. Often young people don’t know where the, the rules come from. So kind of understanding where the rules come from within the cultural expectations is quite helpful, as well, sometimes. Because if something’s just an arbitrary rule makes it harder to follow than if there’s the understanding behind it.
De-escalating tensions
Stuart: Yeah, yeah. I’m wondering, is there certain techniques you use around de-escalating, maybe some of the tension, or some of the anger, that might happen in a room?
Jo: Yeah, Again, it usually goes back to reflective listening, which we use quite a lot. And, and that’s because when you’re, when you’re listening to somebody and you have to reflect back what they’re saying, that takes you away from thinking about what you’re going to stay back. So it takes you away from thinking, thinking about your own argument and it kind of focuses you on, in on their experience.
So I use a lot of that, and really kind of giving people plenty of time. So you know, if we’re kind of asking a mum about why she’s made the rule of you got to be home at 10 o’clock, you know. Really, kind of… continuing to ask her, and let her explain until she said everything that she wants to say about the topic, before then the other person, kind of, giving their point of view.
Stuart: Yeah. Okay.
And really. Yeah, sharing that space, I suppose in terms of what’s happening and…
Jo: Yeah.
Stuart: Okay.
Jo: And it’s not up to me to say who’s right or who’s wrong. It’s about facilitating that.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah.
The end of family therapy
Stuart: So I’m wondering, can you reflect on maybe a few really nice examples that, you know, where you kind of got to the end of family therapy. You know. Things feel calmer. Things feel more connected. What are… can you reflect on some examples of what you’ve noticed at the end of family therapy?
Jo: I think, you know, if things have gone well, people have a different way of communicating and they’ve kind of… they’ve unlocked their horns. I often think of families as two, you know, deers. And they’ve kind of… they’re going together like this, and they need to reverse to unlock those horns, you know.
So it’s being able to kind of take a step back. And so instead of coming, kind of, keeping on fighting, one or both parties usually need to, kind of, take a step back and reflect.
And… when that happens, you see, you know, a lot less, kind of, stress and distress within people, and people just generally, kind of, feeling much more happy about who they are and what their relationships with their family are like.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah.
Also, from our conversation today, maybe another thing that comes out of family therapy is a lot of answers, right. Where you actually give it that space, where you haven’t before, where the anger is turned down, where you know, that family member, or family members, just really takes the time to explore what’s going on for them about this issue.
And then that, hopefully, even just that right again, you still might not agree or come to a common ground. At least there’s understanding. At least there’s some respect in the room built.
Jo: Yeah. Because often an incident has occurred and nobody talks about it since, and both parties have got different kind of memories, or perspective of what it was about, and they don’t feel… They don’t feel safe to go back to revisit it without a third party to support them. So, yeah, being able to unpack that and really understand what happened and what different people’s perspectives were, often brings new information to light that people didn’t know before.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah, I. I often hear in again in couples counseling, the real need for that third party. And yeah, I just wonder what are some important aspects you, as that third-party, bring to the space?
Jo: I think you do have to manage that space actively. Like, you know, it needs to… You need to be in charge, as a family therapist, of the process. Not of the content, but of the process. You know.
I need to be able to kind of say, no, you stop talking now, please, over to you. You know, so I do need to kind of make that. That space as safe as possible. So I do need to be quite kind of assertive in that. And also really kind of mindful of different people’s emotional experiences. So, really watching all the different parties for those kind of non-verbal signs of, you know, of physiological arousal that happen when people are stressed.
Stuart: Yeah. Okay.
Are there times when family therapy doesn't work?
Stuart: And is there any times where family therapy is kind of inappropriate? Like it’s not going to work, you know, it’s just not really safe or advisable to…
Jo: Hmm.
Stuart: … to continue with that?
Jo: Where there’s family violence.
Stuart: Yep.
Jo: And family therapy can make things worse. And you know… if after a session anybody’s going to be at risk, that’s not appropriate for family therapy at that time. So usually I’ll give families some ideas about what to do after the session, and you know, just to let things settle down and not kind of rehash the session that night.
Maybe, you know, take some time for self-care and stuff. Maybe spend some time apart, if they need to.
But yeah, in certain situations I just wouldn’t go there with family therapy, if it didn’t feel like it was going to be a safe place.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah.
Jo: Yeah.
Conclusion
Stuart: Okay.
So yeah, I guess I’m just imagining a listener, or a watcher, tuning into this, this session around family therapy. What are some of your pointers, I guess or initial steps you think that person should think about or, or do about family therapy?
Jo: So I think if you’ve identified there’s a relationship that you would like to work on, you know, reach out, you can book an appointment. The first appointment would be around just sitting down with me, and kind of talking through what your kind of concerns are. And then we would, we would map what it might look like going forward. You know, what about if I, how would it sound if I had a chat with dad next and then you know, what the process is going to be? So that’ll be different for each family. But I would give them some kind of plan of how I plan to step them through the process.
Stuart: Yeah.
Jo: And it might be good to kind of, you know, prior to that meeting with me, think about what would you like to get out of it? What would you like to be different?
Is there particular things that you feel like you would like to talk about? You know, have a little think yourself before the first session about what would be a realistic kind of outcome if family therapy was to be successful.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah, that’s great. And sitting in with that person in that first session, you know, I guess the individual then can choose to continue individual therapy. They might actually at that point go, oh, oh, maybe it’s best to leave that for now. I need to explore and kind of sit with what’s going on for me with, with this scenario, with this issue and then maybe down the track, do some family therapy.
Jo: Yeah, yeah. And. And often people are continuing with their own individual therapy concurrently and using their individual therapy as a space to kind of debrief and, you know, have that real, kind of, you know, support – individual support – for their perspective on things.
Yeah. So it will feel different.
An intake for a family therapy session will feel different from an individual counseling session because I’ll be asking about all different parties and looking at that system and those kind of relationships rather than the going into depth about the history of the individual person.
Stuart: Yeah. And something that I’m taking away from this discussion is the real hand-holding that you do with, with each family member and, and just taking the time. We don’t have to jump in the deep end. We can really set the scene for people expressing themselves and, and building that safety for them to explore, you know, some tricky topics.
Jo: It’s really scaffolding the, the conversation. It’s really preparing and, you know, getting people to kind of have their agenda, you know. Helping them to define what they would actually like to cover in the session so they, so there’s no nasty surprises. You know, it’s not going to be an uncontained, free-for-all kind of discussion. It’s going to be very structured.
Stuart: Great, great.
Well, thank you, Jo. It’s been really interesting pulling apart family therapy. And maybe even, kind of, debunking some of the stigma, or the concerns people have in reaching out and setting up family therapy. So thank you for today.
Jo: No worries. Thank you.
Stuart: If you are listening or watching this and would like to watch some more episodes related to communication, or emotions, or if you’d like to reach out to our team and book in a time, please visit our website and we have our link in the description section.
But please take care and bye for now.
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